Karim Karimli: "The Armenian soldier said that you will see Shusha again in your dreams"

"Development of Society and Media" Public Union with the support of the State Support Agency for Non-Governmental Organizations of the Republic of Azerbaijan "Let's get to know Shusha!" continues the implementation of the project.

Within the framework of the project, the website loveshusha.com was created and the website began to operate in three languages - Azerbaijani, Russian and English. Based on the website, information about Shusha's past, present and people of Shusha will be posted.

As part of the "Year of Shusha", the website loveshusha.com will prioritize interviews and memories of Shusha residents. The next interviewee of Loveshusha.com is the well-known journalist Karim Karimli.

– I want to go back to the beginning. In 1992. As far as we know, you left Shusha at the last minute…

– I was in Shusha until May 8, 1992. In the days before the occupation of Shusha, the situation was very difficult. We already felt that Shusha was missing. The situation even reached such a point that the defenders of the city ran out of strength, and there was no help from anywhere. The remaining population in the city simply in order to survive started to leave the city. It is not necessary to take it as a deficiency, a negative opinion. Because the enemy's tanks were entering the city, the enemy was armed from head to toe, our military force was exhausted, no weapons, no help, but they only made just promises. That's why we had to evacuate civilians and residents who could not leave their homes. I also participated in the defense of the city as part of the battalion commanded by the late Ramiz Gambarov.

– Did you ever think that you will leave Shusha once and for all? In general, did you take something souvenir with you with the thought "when will I see Shusha again"?

– When we left the city, we thought that the war was going on, that we would come back after everything was over... (sighs, faints). I did not even think that the city would be occupied, that it would be out of our hands, that we would leave the city, that the then government of Azerbaijan would agree to the occupation, create conditions, and hand over the city.

"The people of Shusha fought hard to hang flags on the buildings"

– When I left Shusha, I took the Azerbaijani flag. I worked as the director of the printing house in Shusha. The flag was hung at the entrance of the 19th century printing house. I returned to the printing house in the last hours of May 8. I had some documents, money and valuable collections in the big strongbox in the cabinet. The reason I kept my valuables in a strongbox was that they bombed the city every day, every day, and the safest place in the city was the printing house and the strongbox. In general, there was a serious struggle for hanging flags on buildings in Shusha. In the 1990s, there were units of the Soviet army in the city, they were jealous of the Azerbaijani flag, did not allow it, and persecuted those who put the flag on the building. Some local narrow-minded officials were even worse than them (smiles). Therefore, despite the difficulties, the people of Shusha tried to hang the Azerbaijani flag in different places of Shusha. I also hung this flag in front of the printing house where I was the director. When I arrived at the printing house, shells were already flying in the city. Before entering, I took out the flag, put its pole aside, and folded the flag and put it in the bosom of my military uniform. The flag is the most sacred concept in all times, in all armies, in all nations. One of three attributes: anthem, coat of arms, flag. If the flag fell into the hands of the enemy, if it was insulted, this is already a serious fault. After all, we fought for the hanging of this flag in Shusha. I could not leave that flag. I wanted to take my personal belongings, but the projectile fired by the terrorists hit the fire safety staircase of the building, and that metal broke off and fell towards me. You know, fighting against the enemy and becoming martyr is different, but to die under a huge iron is different (laughs).

This is not such a good fate. I jumped back. I could not open the door and take anything from inside. But my left side was full of shrapnel and my head was covered in blood. By the way, the last shrapnel was removed from my head in 2017 by a well-known surgeon, professor Mubariz Aliyev. I express my deepest gratitude to him. That day, i.e. May 8, I left Shusha and went to Fuzuli and then to Agjabadi. I arrived in the city of Baku on May 14. Since then, wherever I have lived, this flag has been with me.

"When I left Shusha, I made a vow that I would be able to hang this flag there again as long as I live."

– Have you been to Shusha after the Patriotic War?

– Yes, on August 29, 2021, after 23 years, I finally went to Shusha. This time to Shusha, which was completely liberated from occupation. Before that, I went to Shusha on August 30, 1998 together with foreign journalistsThis happened 6 years, 3 months and 22 days after the occupation of Shusha, and I was the first Azerbaijani to set foot in Shusha after the occupation. Therefore, after the liberation of Shusha, my going there is considered not after 29-30 years like others, but after 23 years (laughs). This time - that is, when I went for the first time after the liberation from the occupation, I took this beautiful flag with me. My journalist colleagues Seymur Kazimov and Zaur Shiriyev took a photo of me with the flag in front of Yukhari Govhar Aga Mosque in Shusha. Because when I left Shusha, I made a vow that as long as I lived, I could return this flag to Shusha and hang it there.

“The Armenian soldier said that you will see Shusha again in your dreams”

– 6 years after the occupation of Shusha, you returned to your hometown, what feelings did you have, only God knows, and you...

 – (He thinks, his eyes tears). I don't wish anyone to be in that situation in their own country. When I went to Shusha in 1998, I felt in such a situation that... Restrictions of "Protocol requirements, you can't go anywhere else"... You come to your hometown, but you move under the supervision of an Armenian. I collected soil in a small bag from the courtyard of the mosque. Armenians asked what do you want this land for? I replied that after the occupation of Shusha, there are people who died longing for the city of Shusha. I will throw a pinch of Shusha soil on the grave of each of them, and I will bring the rest back to the place where I took it after the occupation is over and after the liberation of Shusha. They laughed and said that you can fulfill the first wish, but don't wait for the second. You will see the Shusha city in your dreams. I said, let's see whose said will come to true! And what I said came to true. Finally, when I went to liberated Shusha after the 44-day Patriotic War, I took the flag and the land with me. In a word, my companion in my life without Shusha was the Azerbaijani flag that I took out of the city.

– You have not only protected the flag, you have also collected material and spiritual things related to Shusha and Karabakh for the survival of Karabakh culture...

– For 30 years, I have collected material, spiritual, and historical items from internally displaced persons, as well as various household items. Their number has exceeded 500. The purpose of my collection is not about the value of the items, not at all, during the displacement period people moved frequently, so not many items survived. I set myself the goal of creating a "Karabakh Museum" and exhibiting the flag and those items in that museum. Frankly, I tried a lot in Baku during these years, but they did not create the conditions. My numerous appeals to official circles did not yield any fruit. I even asked the villages around Baku to allocate a small plot of land, I said, I will build the museum at my own expense. It didn't work either. There is good in everything. We are destined to create a museum in Shusha. Hopefully, now I wish to create this museum in our Shusha.

AYTEN AHMADOVA, KARAM ALASGAROV